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JEREMY MAGGS: Former Johannesburg mayor and leader of the party ActionSA, Herman Mashaba, says, the Johannesburg building tragedy that led to the death of a now confirmed 77 people was, in his words, a disaster waiting to happen. Attention is now turning to cause and how to deal with the scourge of so-called hijacked buildings.
Herman Mashaba is with me now on Moneyweb@Midday. Mr Mashaba, first of all, so-called hijacked buildings, in your opinion then, how should they be dealt with?
HERMAN MASHABA: Well, first of all, good afternoon, Jeremy. Thank you for the opportunity. I think the question of hijacked buildings, unfortunately, any nation or country that is going to allow this kind of lawlessness then will pay the price. Unfortunately, look at what this led to: loss of life, completely unnecessary because a situation like this was avoidable.
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You remember, Jeremy, when I took over as the mayor of the city of Johannesburg, during 100 days in office, I raised the issue openly about the question of hijacked buildings and the risks it posed to the residents in these buildings and the respect for the rule of law in our country and in our city.
JEREMY MAGGS: The bigger problem, of course, is influx of migrants into urban areas and where to house them. Again, I put the question to you, how should the issue of hijacked buildings be dealt with, given that many of these individuals simply have no other place to go to?
HERMAN MASHABA: Well, the other thing that we must never obviously just ignore, if you have an economy over the last 20 years or so spiralling down, when you destroy rural economies, people coming into the urban areas, which is an international phenomenon, but you made your country’s issue even more difficult, you allow your borders to be open to everyone. So you don’t, obviously, I think, have control as to who comes in and out of your country, you allow a free-for-all situation. Unfortunately, this is what you’re going to sit with.
When I took over as [mayor of] the city of Johannesburg, just the South African residents of the city of Johannesburg, I found a housing list of over 300 000 people waiting for houses, because obviously our government, when they took over, they came out with this RDP [Reconstruction and Development Programme] housing and started the housing list, which was, in theory, a good practice. But then obviously you come out with these promises, but you fail to provide the necessary accommodation.
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People were on the waiting list since 1995, 1996, 1997, with the hope that one day they’ll get houses because the government kept on promising, but at the same time, not building houses, but at the same time, allowing the city, like the city of Johannesburg, and it’s something that’s happening all over, allow international criminal syndicates working with senior people in government involved in hijacking [buildings].
What is sad about it is that they captured the criminal justice system because obviously senior politicians were part of these syndicates, then there were no consequences. Now, South Africa became a free-for-all.
JEREMY MAGGS: Mr Mashaba, we have thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in the Johannesburg metro who are living in dilapidated buildings such as the one that we saw go up in flames late last week. What do you believe should be done with those individuals? Is there any way in which they could be helped?
HERMAN MASHABA: Ja, absolutely. There is, you need political will. One thing that I think, and I have no problem to be politically incorrect, I believe the first step in us addressing the issue of hijacked buildings and bringing back the rule of law, people of South Africa, particularly black people, because we’re in a majority, we need to remove the ANC out of power because our biggest problem in this country is an ANC government that is in government.
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JEREMY MAGGS: Mr Mashaba, I understand exactly where you’re going with this line of conversation, and I understand there’s an election next year, but getting rid of the ANC in the here and now, in the next couple of days, is not going to solve the problem of thousands of people who are looking for safe housing in the city of Johannesburg. My question to you is, in the immediate, what should be done?
HERMAN MASHABA: Well, tell me with all the best intentions, and I always believe I always act in good faith, and I’d really want to do the right things, tell me, Jeremy, anyone with best intentions, I’m sure you know the balance sheet of South Africa, we’ve got what, our debt levels are running up to what, over R5 trillion. So even with all the best intentions, with thousands of people, if not millions of people, in these buildings, in informal settlements, in the city of Johannesburg alone, we’ve got I think probably about 240 informal settlements, people living in conditions worse than pigs.
So it’s not really something that I can tell you here’s the solution to this problem, because unfortunately, you don’t need fresh air to build the houses, you need real money, and the private sector in this country is willing to assist, to come to the party to address this particular matter.
But unfortunately, our laws in this country are not allowing private sector investment because of the level of corruption. Also, the lack of professional public service and the criminal justice system that can punish those who break our laws. So, unfortunately, personally, I don’t think I’d like to play a political game and tell you there’s an immediate solution. There isn’t.
There is no one who’s going to give you any immediate solution because this situation requires money and the government does not have money, [the money] has got to come from the private sector.
We need to create a conducive environment for the private sector to invest in building accommodation for poor people. When I was the mayor, I demonstrated the power of the private sector and their willingness to really be part of solving this problem. But unfortunately, this government I’m talking about, it’s making it impossible for the private sector to operate.
JEREMY MAGGS: The leader of ActionSA, Herman Mashaba, thank you very much indeed.
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