Share post
“Öcalan is unquestionably the leader of the Kurdish people, I want him to be free,” Jean-Pierre Restellini, a former member of the Council of Europe’s Committee for the Prevention of Torture (CPT) who visited Abdullah Öcalan, the imprisoned leader of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), in İmralı prison in north-western Turkey, said in an exclusive interview.
Noting that Öcalan keeps himself mentally very strong despite the harsh conditions in İmralı, Restellini said: “What keeps Öcalan alive in İmralı is the knowledge that his people are behind him.”
While the absolute incommunicado detention of Öcalan continues in its 32nd month, support messages continue to rise for the international campaign that was launched on 10 October with a joint statement in 74 centres around the globe demanding “Freedom for Öcalan, A Political Solution for Kurdistan”.
Swiss forensic medicine specialist, doctor and lawyer Restellini, who was part of the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture (CPT) delegation that visited İmralı in 1999, 2010 and 2013, answered Serkan Demirel’s questions about the İmralı visits and Öcalan’s current conditions in a broadcast on Medya Haber TV.
Here is Demirel’s exclusive interview of Restellini, who worked for more than 30 years as an expert for the CPT and served as the President of the Swiss National Commission for the Prevention of Torture between 2009 and 2015:
As a member of the CPT, you visited İmralı in 1999 immediately after the arrest of PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan, 2010 and 2013. Could you tell us what happened during these visits?
Yes, I went to see Abdullah Öcalan three times, and on the last two visits I also saw the prisoners with him. To tell you more, the first visit was in 1999, almost 25 years ago. Therefore my memories are a bit hazy.
In this first meeting, Abdullah Öcalan was very nervous because he had just been arrested. He did not know who we were and did not understand our intentions, whether we were there to help him. It took him a few hours to relax and tell us what he had been through. This was our first visit.
During our visits in 2010 and afterwards Apo was much more relaxed. The conditions of his detention had improved somewhat. As a doctor, I was concerned about Apo’s health, so I asked to be allowed to examine him. So I took everyone out and was left alone in a purely medical environment with information that is covered by medical confidentiality and which I cannot give you even now.
After this second visit, which was a very memorable visit for me, we stayed as good friends. Apo is a very sympathetic person.
Our third visit in 2013 took place in the same context and we were happy to see each other again. He called me “My French Doctor” because he knew I spoke French. I liked this expression.
To summarise, it was clear from these interviews that he was not a victim of violence and that he had not been ill-treated by the authorities.
But the conditions in which he is being held today, especially the isolation, are very difficult. I don’t know exactly what his current situation is, but, in any case, for anyone in isolation, it is a terrible violence to be left without the possibility of communication, to be confined to a small concrete square of four metres square, with limited walking space. These conditions are extremely difficult to bear.
Could you tell us a little bit about İmralı Prison, for example the structure of the prison?
As you know, İmralı used to be an island that housed many people. On our first visit, the Turkish authorities told us that they had to evacuate the whole island within a few weeks to keep a special prisoner like Öcalan. It is a prison with submarines circling and security measures at the highest level. I have visited hundreds of prisons all over the world and I don’t remember ever seeing such a high level of security in any prison.
What was Öcalan’s attitude towards the CPT delegation during your visits?
As I said before, Öcalan was quite nervous during our first visit in 1999. In our subsequent meetings he was quite warm. He was even happy to talk about his experiences and to share what hopes he had for his people and for himself. After more than 20 years, it is sad for me to know that today his conditions have not changed much.
Were political issues discussed in these meetings?
I allowed him to talk about politics in our one-to-one meetings, but you should know that everything we said was recorded by the ubiquitous cameras. That’s why I had to be a bit careful. For example, I couldn’t say “Long live Kurdistan” when I was with him. I might get in trouble when I left. The Turks might not want me to come to İmralı again. In such a situation I had to remain neutral. So we had to be careful what we said and how we behaved.
Did Öcalan tell you about the conditions he was in in İmralı?
He did not feel the need to tell us because we saw the conditions during our visits. As a delegation, we visited and analysed the whole prison system.
I was also in close contact with Öcalan’s doctors during our visits because we were also concerned about his health. Because he is not very young, we wanted to make sure that his health and the health structure of the prison was good. We wanted to make sure that it was possible to evacuate him quickly to the coast or to a military ship in case anything went wrong or if he needed medical attention.
I can tell you, however, that the Turkish authorities have built the prison structure in such a way that Öcalan cannot face any accidents. They could not risk an accident happening to Öcalan. It would have been politically heavy for them too, because the whole world is closely watching the conditions of Öcalan’s imprisonment.
Öcalan’s imprisonment in İmralı will enter its 25th year. It can’t be easy to spend 25 years in İmralı conditions, can it?
Of course not. It’s not easy. It is very difficult to resist psychologically in İmralı. But what keeps Apo alive is the fact that he knows that his people are behind him. Maybe that is why he is still alive. When we went to see him for the first time, we were worried that his psychological state might collapse, that he might think of suicide or something else. But such a situation did not occur. In our subsequent meetings we saw that he remained very strong mentally.
Despite Öcalan’s 25 years of captivity, the conditions in İmralı have not changed significantly. No news has been received from Öcalan for about 32 months. His right to see his lawyer and family has been completely taken away. What do you think about the isolation conditions Öcalan is in today?
There are various rumours about Öcalan’s current situation. If, as you say, he has no contact with his family and lawyers, this is a very difficult and terrible situation. There is no doubt about that. But I cannot speak with certainty unless I have seen it with my own eyes.
Well, aren’t isolation conditions a violation of human rights?
Once again you are opening up an important debate. For years, whether solitary confinement is a violation has been the subject of judgements by the European Court of Human Rights and other international bodies.
Some courts have ruled that holding a person in solitary confinement for years is inhuman and degrading. But I am not sure whether there is any precedent from the European Court of Human Rights on this issue. However, it would be worth checking, as the judgements of the European Court of Human Rights can be applied to Apo’s detention situation.
The only organisation authorised to enter İmralı is the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture (CPT). Although the CPT last visited İmralı in September 2022, it still has not released its report on this visit despite all requests. How do you evaluate this attitude of the CPT?
Unless the authorised state responds to the CPT’s report, i.e. prepares and publishes its response, the CPT cannot publish its own report under the convention.
This is obviously considered shocking and abnormal by the Kurds. However, I would like to point out that the authorisation of the CPT to go wherever it wants whenever it wants is a very sensitive issue. If the CPT starts to break certain rules, states can react by saying “we don’t want you anymore, you are violating the convention”. That would be a bad situation for everybody. Therefore, it is necessary to be cautious and unfortunately, the fault for the non-publication of the report of the one-year visit I mentioned is not the CPT, but the Turkish authorities who did not publish their response to the CPT’s visit.
Turkey has to publish the CPT’s response to the last İmralı visit. We often encounter this problem. In the Council of Europe, which consists of 45 countries in total, some states publish their response to the CPT’s report immediately, while others wait for years, some even until a new government is formed in the country.
Öcalan’s lawyers and many human rights defenders say that the CPT is politicised in its position on İmralı. Do you think that the CPT is under political pressure in the face of Öcalan’s situation?
When you are part of a criticising committee, it is understandable that the states being criticised are often dissatisfied. That is obvious. But to claim that there is political pressure to prevent the CPT from expressing itself is an argument that has never been substantiated. The CPT has always been able to express the data it has obtained in prisons, taking into account the conventions to which it is obliged to adhere.
Turkey is a signatory to the Council of Europe and many other international treaties. Despite this, not only Öcalan but thousands of political prisoners are being held under very harsh conditions in Turkish prisons today. Are Turkey’s practices not in violation of these treaties?
Yes, absolutely. These violations are not only limited to political prisoners, but also to the general situation of the Kurdish people. When I first visited the Kurdistan region 40 years ago, the Kurds were perceived by the Turks as highlanders and often treated as second class people. Today, the Turkish state continues to violate the rights of the Kurdish people.
Do you think that the war waged by the Turkish state against the Kurdish people in four parts of Kurdistan and the isolation imposed on Öcalan are linked? Is isolation part of the war against the Kurdish people?
Yes, it certainly is. Because they are afraid of Öcalan. They are afraid of what Öcalan can do if he is free. Öcalan is feared not only by Turks but also by other countries with Kurdish populations. They are worried that if Öcalan is freed he will unite the Kurds in these countries. They perceive this situation and Öcalan’s freedom as a threat to themselves.
As someone who has been in close contact with Öcalan, what would you like to say about Öcalan’s role in the solution of the Kurdish question and Öcalan’s ideas?
I believe that there will come a time when a solution to the Kurdish problem will be found. It is undeniable that the Kurdish problem, like the current Palestinian-Israeli problem, gives rise to similar levels of concern. It is a problem that needs a solution.
However, I believe that Öcalan is and will continue to be the “father”, i.e. the leader, of the Kurdish people and that his ideas are very positive and important for the Kurdish people and the solution of the Kurdish problem.
The problem is that many countries do not share this point of view. This creates tensions and unfortunately these tensions are not limited to the Kurdish people, there are many situations in the world that are similar to what you, the Kurdish people, are going through.
Öcalan was seen and tried as the leader of the PKK, which is considered a “terrorist” organisation by Turkey. What would you say about this definition of “terror”?
First of all, it is important to ask what a terrorist is. When I was a member of the CPT, I voted for a motion banning the use of the term “terrorist” because the term in itself means nothing.
It is often used to describe the use of violence. Therefore, in fact, every war can be defined as terrorism. In today’s definition, terrorism is used as a method of defaming a group of people.
For example, if you are fighting for the liberation of your country, you may be labelled a terrorist. During the Second World War, the French who stood up to defend their country were labelled terrorists. Similarly, Chechens fighting against the Russians were labelled as terrorists.
In short, as soon as you oppose something and take up arms to defend your country, you can be labelled a terrorist. So this term actually has no meaning and no equivalent.
In connection with this question, I would like to ask about the European Union’s decision to consider the PKK as a “terrorist” organisation. How do you evaluate this decision?
I was astonished by this decision. I would like to use the expression you used for the CPT here. There may have been political pressure on the European Union to take this decision or it may have taken a political decision. As a matter of fact, I was surprised that the EU took such a decision.
As a member of the CPT, you visited hundreds of prisons and wrote a book on your impressions in these prisons. Which prison has the most severe conditions in your opinion, and where do you place İmralı Prison?
It depends on the criteria of the prisons. I have also visited prisons in Central and North Africa. There are prisons in Central Africa where prisoners starve to death, especially in hot countries where they cannot sleep inside and have to spend the night outside exposed to mosquitoes.
It is difficult to categorise the worst prisons, because it also depends on the resilience of the prisoners. Someone who is mentally strong and physically healthy will withstand prison better than someone who is less fortunate in these respects.
First of all, it has been a long time since I have been to İmralı, so I am speaking on the basis of my last visit in 2013. Judging by the conditions I observed during that visit, the conditions in İmralı did not seem that bad at that time.
At that time Abdullah Öcalan was allowed to meet with other prisoners, to do sports and to follow the press. For a prisoner, it is important and essential to be in contact with fellow prisoners, to participate in sporting activities, to be able to follow developments, to have contact with the outside world, to be able to meet with his family and lawyers. Abdullah Öcalan had all these in 2013.
Many of these rights that you witnessed in 2013, such as Öcalan’s right to meet with his lawyers and family, that is, his connection with the outside world, have been completely taken away. Again, according to the statements of his lawyers, many of Öcalan’s rights inside the prison have also been taken away. Therefore, I would like to ask again, are these not violations?
If the situation is as you suggest, this is unacceptable. For example, when we first visited Apo in 1999, prison conditions were unsatisfactory and the CPT raised its concerns with the Turkish state authorities and demanded that these conditions be changed. The authorities gradually changed some aspects of prison conditions.
Therefore, if Apo’s current conditions have returned to those of 1999, this must be an unacceptable situation for the CPT as well as for me.
As you may know, South African leader Nelson Mandela regained his freedom after 27 years of severe imprisonment. The role of the international community was important in the process that led Mandela to freedom. Do you see a similarity between Öcalan’s situation and Mandela’s? Can the international community also play a role for Öcalan’s freedom?
Yes, absolutely. When I met Öcalan, this was one of the topics we talked about several times. I mentioned the example of Nelson Mandela, that is, how Mandela, who was considered a “terrorist” by his own country, was freed and then became the leader of his country, and how he always kept hope. We can talk about similarities between Öcalan’s situation and Mandela’s situation. The same process can be realised for Apo.
Can the international community also mobilise for Öcalan’s freedom?
Of course, the international community can do something for Öcalan. But at the moment, in the tense international environment we are in, I don’t believe this will be a priority, at least from the point of view of the international public opinion. But of course they can change something for Öcalan.
Can’t the United Nations play a role in changing Öcalan’s conditions?
Yes, the United Nations (UN) can intervene in Öcalan’s situation. The UN Special Rapporteur against Torture can also deal with Apo’s situation. At this point, a voice would be raised.
On 10 October, politicians, writers, intellectuals, human rights defenders, trade unions, including world-renowned names, made a joint statement in 74 centres around the world and launched a campaign demanding “Freedom for Öcalan and a political solution to the Kurdish problem”. What would you like to say about this campaign?
This is an important situation. Such campaigns should continue. For example, the vigil for freedom for Öcalan near the Council of Europe in Strasbourg is an important action. It is necessary to continue to organise demonstrations in support of Apo.
Öcalan is today recognised as the leader of the Kurdish people, representing a population of over 40 million people. Despite this, he has been imprisoned for 25 years in a country ruled by Erdoğan, who is considered by many to be a dictatorial regime. What do you think can be done to change these conditions Öcalan is in?
Of course, we need to put pressure on Erdoğan and do everything we can for change. But I don’t know what more we can do, I think it is very important that people continue to mobilise and above all never forget Apo and continue to embrace him.
What would you like to say for Öcalan’s freedom, do you have a message for this?
I repeat, Apo is indisputably the father and leader of the Kurdish people. Therefore, if you have a father, a leader in prison, you want to protect him. Since I have a very sincere and even sympathetic relationship with Apo, I personally want him to be released from prison as soon as possible and to be free. This desire is very clear to me.
I repeat, with all my heart I want Apo to be free and I hope that I will soon be able to visit him in his own Kurdish state.
Share post
This post was originally published on this site be sure to check out more of their content.
